EPISODE 125: The Courage to Be Seen with Keri Ford

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  Welcome to the Tao Po Podcast. I'm your host, Po-Hong Yu, aka Big Red, aka Po, aka all kinds of nicknames because Po pretty much goes with everything. I'm a mystic, a spiritual guide, a medicine woman, and a somatic energy healer. My soul's work is to guide people back to the wisdom that lives in their bodies and to heal unprocessed pain so they can have the space to cultivate their gifts and then radiate their light and their work out into the world.

  Everything I teach is based on the foundation of Taoism with an emphasis on Yin, which is feminine energy. It's the internal, the deep, the dark, the soft, the surrendered, and the receptive energy that is arising in the collective. In this podcast, you'll receive soul treats in the form of three kinds of episodes that support this time of awakening. Inner child alchemy sessions, solo transmissions from my heart, and conversations with people where we explore the full range of topics that make people human and divine. I hope you enjoy. Let's get into it.

  Welcome to my show, Carrie. I'm so happy you are here with us today. I'm excited too. Oh, oh my gosh. So, Carrie and I connected in a mastermind group business coaching program, and I'm actually one of her brand partners. I have an ad actually on your podcast, which is really Yeah, you do. It's my first time doing it, and I was like, this just feels right.

  Let me try. Because Carrie also is a somatic healer. I don't know how you act if you actually call yourself a healer, but I'm calling you that.

  I mean, what would you call yourself actually? Yeah, a somatic high performance coach or somatic practitioner. Yeah.

  Yeah. So we have a lot in common, but obviously you don't work with psychedelics. And so we thought there would be a good resonance there. So anyway, I'm happy to have you on here and share your story with my audience because the little that I know of your story was very inspiring.

  So yeah, let's get into it. The first thing I always want to know is what are you most grateful for in this very moment? Being able to have my own business.

  There's nothing like the freedom. And I spent so many years making myself wrong for not fitting into the corporate mold and being like, why can't I just make it work? And it's like, I could never go back to corporate now at this point.

  My boyfriend and I joke that we're certifiably unemployable at this rate because you know, I'm so used to it. I did a Peloton ride before this call, this podcast interview, and just the freedom to create a movement, just deeply grateful for that. Oh my goodness.

  Yes. Amen to all of that. I am, I mean, like I've been an entrepreneur for like 20 plus years, so I literally cannot imagine my life in corporate America. I had that like experience too. And I felt like a caged animal is like getting out of here. So yes, amen to that. The second question is what in the childhood experience that you have that was challenging for you and was pivotal for you in your growth?

  Are you grateful for? Probably being bullied in high school. I was really kind of this awkward, mousy girl that was, I'm five feet tall, but I was very awkward and kind of underdeveloped and late to blossom, if you will.

  And in middle school, and then as I came into high school, I started to get attention from boys and, you know, oh, I've got a little bit of a body now. And this is interesting. And then the flip side of that was it was really triggering some girls.

  And I did not understand where that was coming from. It was blind siding, because I just wanted to be friends with everybody and be liked by everybody. And, you know, I think it's really such a personal mission for me now to create such safe spaces for women that are healing that sisterhood wound, because nobody should ever feel like they've got a target on their back just because they're a bright light in the world. And for a lot of years, I spent like a lot of time making myself wrong for that, dimming my light, playing small, being so worried about what how it might make other people feel if I was, you know, being humble enough, if I was being too confident or too much. And so, you know, fuck that conversation. I'm way past that now. But now I get to create rooms and experiences, as you'll see at the Champaign Club that you're coming to in October, where women get to be part of this very warm sisterhood. And it's like, you do me no favors by not owning your light.

  And I take nothing from yours by being in mine. Oh, my God, yes. I mean, you're speaking to the choir, my audience so loves this conversation, because a lot of them are having issues around being seen, being visible, right?

  Like, exactly what you're saying, being in their power, and afraid of people outcasting them, or, you know, they're not belonging because of that. Yeah. And I that's my personal story too. And I love how you embody what you're saying right now from my own personal experience. You're so welcoming and personable. And, you know, but at the same time, you're in your power and owning who you are, right?

  Like, you can be kind and, and have open arms while also being a badass, like, you don't have to be in order to be like that. Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

  Yeah. So how like, I'm curious about like your childhood. So you were mousy, and you're being bullied because of your mousiness, or only when you became like this bright light and the boys were like, Oh, Carrie.

  Yeah. I started to, you know, play with makeup, and I dyed my hair a little blonder. And I was like this little bubbly cheerleader looking chick.

  And I didn't realize how upsetting that was going to be for a lot of people. Because I wasn't really doing anything wrong, right? I'm just kind of expanding into myself and growing up and maturing. And, you know, it was a confusing experience because I had so-called friends do things like call my cell, my, we didn't have cell then, but my private line, and they had like a blocked number, but would be prank phone calling and making death threats, or had dog shit smeared all over my car when I was away on spring break. Had our house egged. I mean, it was like silent bullying, which I think was the most hurtful, because nobody had the balls to do it to my face. And it was like, what did I do to deserve this? Like, I literally was asking myself, like, what did I do wrong? And the message I received or made it, what I made it mean was that my existence is upsetting. I'm inherently wrong for existing.

  Right. And so as you're going through this as a young person, I mean, you're taking so much in. And to me, it seems scarier to not know who it is because it literally, it's the unexpected, anything could happen at any time. But, you know, so the nervous system can get really like jacked up because you're like, oh, do I need to watch my back here?

  Like, what the hell is going on? Well, ascending to higher levels, you become, you feel like you might have a target on your back if you make more money, you're more visible, you're more successful, because now you don't know who you're going to upset. And I've definitely upset people just by existing in this space with people I've even partnered with on projects. And I have learned to not only voice and presence what I see and feel occurring because my nervous system is picking up on something and a presence that gives it less energy, because now we can have a conversation and be vulnerable about what's actually happening. And the other is to notice in my nervous system, am I trying to prove my improving energy? Am I trying to, am I like outside and disconnected from my body right now?

  Or am I just taking up more of myself? There's a difference. One feels very rooted and grounded and expansive and radiant for me. And the other feels like a look at me energy. And I know the difference now so I can discern and be like, what is my intention here?

  What's going on in my body? Because there's been times where obviously I felt like I had to prove or maybe take up space, but from a, you know, a look at me space and energy. And so now knowing that, knowing the difference. Yeah, knowing the difference.

  Yeah, then you know how actually to, well, you have obviously had to do so much work to even get to this place. I mean, as a teenager or as a young person, what was your response? Did you go smaller in that moment? Or did you need to get therapy? Like what was your process and how did you deal with that experience?

  And then what helped you to expand into where you are now? I don't, you know, I don't think I dealt with it consciously, but the unconscious strategy became trying to be liked by everybody. So whatever I needed to be a chameleon, right? I also became an expert at reading other people. Probably why I do what I do. I'm like, not only am I trauma trained to read people's nervous systems from the inside out, but also their facial expressions and their body language. So I became an expert at being hyper vigilant. But to your point earlier, you do become anticipatory in your nervous system that when I become more visible, bigger, doing great things, I'm going to have a target on my back.

  And so you almost cut off your life force energy from that space. Well, you do, right? Because you're anticipating I'm going to be attacked. Yeah, totally right. Like when you talk about going small, that is cutting off your life force because really being somebody you're not, you're not being the fullness of your true self. And you're like, Oh, I can only fit in this box in order to fight.

  And oh my God, like literally everything you're saying is was my experience. And I'm sure like everybody is listening now, like, Oh, yes, they're like, uh, huh, uh, huh. Me too.

  Yeah. So what did you end up doing as you kept expanding? Like what was the thing that shifted things for you in this process? I had a pretty easy time being quote unquote, aggressive in the workspace in corporate. Most of my bosses had been men in corporate.

  So it was really welcomed. I jived really well with the masculine leadership, you know, paradigm, if you will, because I think women have really learned to be liked by men or like men. And I was good at doing both in corporate.

  I grew, I, you know, I would climb the corporate ladder fast, but I just there was an unsettling within me that knew that this wasn't my path, despite that. So I had a really easy time, you know, adapting, I would say, in that space, but I probably subconsciously, now that I look back at it, felt more comfortable with men because they weren't out to get me. In fact, I could hang with them and it wouldn't, they wouldn't give a fuck. They weren't triggered by me. This is, I mean, this is so, I love that, which is the sisterhood wound is so real, so real.

  I mean, I've experienced that many women do. I was actually part of a program. This woman named Mama Gina.

  I went to her program many years ago, and it directly deals with sisterhood wounds because there's a statement that you say to celebrate. It's you started with eyebrow. Eye brag.

  I just met the most amazing partner, whatever, whatever, right, and having the best sex of my life, whatever your brag is. And she did that purposefully because so many women dim their shine, dim their celebrations, like literally make the good things smaller around other women because they're afraid they're going to be attacked or like not like all these things that you're talking about. And it was really powerful for me to experience because in that community, everybody's like, well bragged, right?

  Then all of a sudden, I'm being celebrated for bragging about all the goodness of my life. And so the sisterhood wound is so, like, I still have moments of like that wound surfacing. Cut, do you?

  Less and less. When I first joined this mastermind, it's a new group of women. So it just depends how comfortable I am with the nervous systems. Now I have a bunch of new nervous systems. How much of me can I be comes up, right? How much of me can I allow to be seen? How visible can I be here?

  Is it safe? And I learned quickly in this space it was because we have women talking about big money, big dreams, cheering each other on, giving them a virtual hug when they need it, calling them out lovingly where they need it in a way that's like very, very mindful. And so, oh, okay, people are like open to feedback.

  So I don't have to bite my tongue and I'll have to be quiet and obedient. And then also, you know, this is a safe space to be celebrated, like bigger, better, awesome. So I think it depends on the space. Not every space deserves all of you. Not every space deserves for you to be visible and show your heart.

  Totally. Oh my God, I would love for you to share like more of any experiences, like, like, like as you got older and went into college, for example, like, did you see the same themes coming up for you when you're, you know, in corporate America where women jealous, like, other women co-workers like jealous that the men were paying attention to you or whatever. There were definitely, corporate is such a weird thing, because I would deal with sexual harassment from the men. And then I would deal with some women making little passive aggressive comments, but no thing directly at me. A lot of the women I tended to work with seem to be older.

  So there was a little less of that. I don't remember a ton of that specifically in corporate college. I remember, you know, going up and introducing myself to a group of girls, like, let's say you go to a party and you're like, party's already happening. Well, everyone turns to look at you when you walk in the room. And I would notice the dirty looks that I would get just by walking into the room. Girls looking at me from head to toe, up and down, staring me down, territorial. And what I would do is I'd go right up to them and say, Hey, I'm Carrie.

  And I would just introduce myself. It was a bold move. It kind of came from a wounded place, though, of trying to be humble and say, Hey, I'm not threatening.

  And it worked to diffuse the situation, but it never felt good to be stared at like that. I mean, that is, that's a that's a lot actually, because yeah, guessing is because you're a pretty woman. Like you're like, if, if, if, I mean, there's so many types of pretty, right? There's, but you're like the stereotypical pretty woman. I guess that that's how I would say it.

  Like if we had one image in the United States, that's what I would see you as. Like, and so my guess is these do you agree or do you disagree? I get that feedback. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

  I'm just that this is the way that the conditioning is of the culture. Totally. I've got the cheerleader playboy look and I ran with it.

  You know, I like that look. I was, which also was very created a lot of cognitive dissonance, right? Because I'm also very smart. And, and that's actually what I saw in corporate. I was treated as like the ditzy blonde or the bimbo. And that was, I wasn't, so I had to, I felt like I had to work extra hard to prove like I'm very smart and I'm going to outwork you. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's so powerful to be able to experience somebody and be challenged by our preconceived notions of them.

  That happens to me all the time being a Chinese American woman and also looking extremely younger than what I am. Right? People.

  What do you share that you're turning 50? We were all like, what the fuck? We need your skin routine. Like, what is happening? I'm like, connect with your inner child. This is like, this is my method. But like, but so like, I understand like, you know, but it's obviously different, you know, people don't take me as seriously or they think my voice is going to be different.

  I'm going to be more mousy, but I have like a very strong personality. They're like, who the fuck? What? Like, who are you? You're supposed to be more like a, like, you know, passive or like submissive. I'm like, yeah, the wrong one. Yeah. But so I totally understand this feeling of like walking into a room and being misunderstood just from you, like, here's your box, get in it.

  Totally. And then you're like, but I'm a lot of box, like there's a lot of sides to the box and I'm multi-dimensional, you know, and even probably in the spiritual realm, you know, finding our footing with like brand message and voice and image. A lot of people will be like, well, it's not spiritual to show your body. And you're like, it's all fucking spiritual. Like makeup can be spiritual.

  Like it's all spiritual, right? And I've gone through the evolutions of exploring that. Like I gave up makeup for 30 days and went out on girls nights and weekends in Vegas, just to like sit with myself in the experience of what came up, you know, stripping away alcohol, really taking all the masks and taking a look at them and saying like, what is life like if I consciously decide to put this down for a little while and explore how I show up and what comes alive inside me?

  Yeah, did you like, I'm so curious about one of these experiments that you had, like, is there one that stands out where you're like, ooh, I really discovered something about myself or like I really found out like this insecurity of belief I had about me or whatever you experienced. Yeah. Giving up alcohol easy, giving up makeup hard. So hard. You know, when we can craft the perfect perception or what we think we're creating as an identity, what we identify with, what I learned is that's not me at all.

  Right? I am not makeup. And I've got melasma and 40s.

  I got wrinkles and I've got like uneven skin tone and I look young without makeup and I like presenting with makeup. But it was the intention behind the why. And so there's a quote that I'm reminded of here and it's that we might return to the place we once started but know it for the first time. And so in the willingness to let it all down and let it all be seen and put the mask to the side, I came back to makeup and realized I fucking love makeup and it's a creative expression and it's all spiritual.

  But the intention is so different behind the why now. And that's really what I'm connected to. That's such a powerful message because I talk to my clients about that all the time. It's like it is always about the intention underneath it. And do you feel like it's easier for you to discover the intention when you take the time to let it go? Has that been your experience? I think you just have to have a willingness to completely surrender to the process and take a seat in yourself to say, what is actually true if I'm being honest with myself in this moment?

  What is really coming up? And it's like, oh, damn, like I only feel pretty when I wear makeup. That's a pretty strong belief. Or makeup lets me control the perception of myself, right? Or makeup is power.

  That's not where power lies though. And then to learn that I could be beautiful without makeup that I could show up to on stage and deliver a fucking kick ass thing. It actually doesn't matter how I look. It's how I feel to people so that I can take a seat in myself and be connected to my power regardless of how I look. That was a huge thing and an uncoupling for me through that. But like, you know, I think it's what this journey requires if I'm going to be teaching, not how to give up makeup, but how to be connected to your authentic, you know, boldest, baddest ass self, is I have to be willing to go take a look and have the courage to go there within myself.

  Otherwise, how can I guide people? Totally. Do you feel like this piece around the makeup was connected to what happened when you're younger, what we just talked about like being bullied and people like really pride, like putting your looks on a hierarchy, like it's like your looks are really everything and everything else is secondary.

  Huge, I had had something happen in my business around that time, it was like two years ago now, where I had a second company completely fall apart, sisterhood stuff was involved, basically a group program imploded. And I was just like, how did this happen? Like I got to take a look at myself, like what in me attracted this experience?

  What is the gift for me? It was painful, but it was like, we got to have a come to Jesus here about what happened, right? What are the parts at play that I am not aware of yet? And so I just got really fucking curious because I was like, all I know is that will never happen again because I will know better, because I will be seen in all the places that maybe I'd been masking, maybe that attracted that.

  What did you discover there? It was so reminiscent of the bullying. And I was like, oh gosh, like I thought I had dealt with that. Hadn't realized I didn't deal with that yet. Realized I still had sisterhood stuff in terms of how we handle coach-client relationship, right? Like it's why I actually don't call myself a healer now and to each their own and how they embody that. And again, the why matters, but I am not responsible for taking their backpack and pulling them up the hill.

  I'm gonna hand you your backpack and I will be right next to you and walk up the hill together. And what I learned was how to invite clients into responsibility and curiosity and be a better fucking coach that gives clients back their power because I don't have their answers. I'm just the mirror. Did you find that you were carrying their backpack before and like what was that connected to for you? Like why did you, because I know I was like that, right? So I call myself a healer, but with the same intention as you, like I'm not healing you, I'm teaching you how to heal yourself, but like I used to be a rescuer, constantly always trying to fix people, save people because that's where I come my value.

  And so I wonder for you, was that something similar or is it like a way to be liked that was also my way of being liked? Oh, I know I have this to offer. I always know I can listen to people and people come to me for advice.

  And so then maybe they can like me, that will be my entry point, you know? So what is that for you? The word value stands out.

  It was where I unconsciously hinged my value and worth because then I'm needed. Exactly. Right, but you create codependency with your clients. I don't want codependency. I want them to be more free of me even, right? I want them, I want to help coach them for whatever season they're in.

  And if that happens to evolve with me cool, often it does, but if not, less than release. Like go do you, right? I'll be here cheering you on, but you don't need me to do all that. Can I help you get there faster?

  Absolutely, but I'm not gonna be the one that says I've got your key over here, right? So I think unconsciously it was connected to value. And all of that came back from to that, those experiences or is there something else that it's even further behind that? You know, I'm not too sure.

  I think it could be connected to creating safety with women in a way that was like, okay, in this dynamic, now there's a power dynamic established where I'm coach, right, further ahead then, right? So then what happens? People are gonna do this regardless, but pedestalization. They're gonna put you on a pedestal. I learned people will do this regardless. I can be the most human quote unquote and the most relatable and I can cry on camera and I can have dear diary posts and I can show up without makeup and whatever the fuck. And people will still put me on pedestal and that's not my responsibility. It's that's theirs, right? So I have just learned to put to bed, like people are responsible for their own perception of me and the pedestalization that could occur. And I think I was contributing to some of that as well. And I think that comes by nature, maybe of the power dynamic that's just established, right?

  With someone who's an authority figure or somebody that is that you're paying money to to help with an activation. I think there has to be some level of like respect, right? I know that we respect Kelly who were in her mastermind and then she's further ahead than us.

  Like that's, there's no way around that, she just is. So a little bit of that for sure. There were absolutely threads of that, but the bigger, actually the bigger learning was like the partnership that I was in and the partnership I was in, I realized was actually what attracted most of those experiences. So all I still had loops to close and things to heal that were reminiscent of historical patterns and things. It was also the partnership that I attracted.

  And what I thought were energetic fissures became foundational cracks. And then once I realized that I was like, oh, oh, partnerships are really interesting. I'm so curious about this conversation because I wonder, did you have an instinct at the beginning that this was potentially not a good fit or did it kind of creep up on you down the line?

  Three, hold on, it was like less than six months in, I had a moment where I knew that there were two moments. There was one where I took a client in, I probably shouldn't have taken in, that wasn't ready for the container and it shifted everything. And the reason why is because one of those clients had been a former client of one of the other current people.

  And it kind of made things weird, which I should have addressed in real time. Now I know when I feel a little nudge or something in my body, we're gonna presence this. We're just gonna, we're not gonna make this a thing. We're just gonna talk about it. And the other was a moment where I was like, bringing this conversation to my partner and saying, like, hey, I feel like we need to do X, Y, Z for the container.

  And what I'm needing from you is, like making a request for support. But I think I could have been, I didn't wanna be an alarmist at the time, but my intuition was really spot on now that I look back. And I think I would have had a stronger assertion in the conversation looking back. Yeah, it's so interesting to look back in all those moments that our body nudges us. Yeah, it's like, oh, we always know, and I use this with clients. I'm like, when was the moment you knew you shouldn't have hired that one person on your team?

  And they're like, actually, when I was interviewing them. Totally. How often we silence ourselves, right? Or with a friendship or a romantic partnership. It's like, our body really knows. Yeah, always, always. Like I can always track it back to a moment where I'm like, oh, yeah. Yeah, there it is. Yeah.

  Always. So how do you feel like you, cause it seems like you've been able to really make major shifts in cycles, like in the death and rebirth cycle, like really rebirthing yourself and in doing this healing work. Like believe it's because of the somatic healing work that you've been doing on your own body and your own nervous system. Or is there other pieces that you feel are also major elements to it? I think the first thing is courage. That's the first ingredient that all of this requires because without that, the tools, the practices, the modalities are nothing and you have to choose courage every day. It's the mountain with no top.

  It's the race with no finish line. So if you're committed to this work as a lifestyle, as am I, then you have to constantly come back to courage to look in the corners you don't want to look at, to be honest with yourself about the parts you don't like and then to learn how to integrate all of those parts because I believe that healing is way less about trying to get rid of and way more about learning how to move with and integrate and accept all of. So I may never put to bed the perfectionist fully because we live in a society that values certain things and it's biologically wired in our system to be picked, to belong, those are like, those are on an inherent primal biological level. So I will not probably ever heal those things because that's overriding my biological nature as a human.

  So those are certain things and that's just how it shows up in our Western culture. Anyway, I'm getting to the point here, but courage is the first ingredient. Somatic work absolutely helps. Inner child work for me was the biggest rearranging start. That was the part where it was like, oh my God, there have been all of these moments in time where the part of me that was four years old or the inner child at seven, she's just been waiting for me to come back and tell her I love her and then I'm not gonna leave her or then I'm not gonna abandon her and I'm not gonna betray her anymore. And those are the parts that are driving the wheel in an adult body. And so it's so important we look back at, not necessarily the moment it incepted, you may never know the point of T zero trauma zero, but where are these patterns are coming from so that you can stop living this life through an unconscious psychosomatic loop.

  So the somatic work definitely can be an access point, but for me, the inner child work to start with, because I didn't know somatic work then, was the biggest rearranging to start. And that was where I began. Oh my gosh, yes. I am a facilitator of inner child work and it was only because of my own spontaneous healing that I had almost a decade ago and that ended up being my process that I teach and guide people through. So cool. Yeah, it was really cool because I was in such pain in that moment, which is usually the entry point into healing from my experience.

  Yeah, absolutely. I had this moment of like going into my body and feeling all of these sensations and it literally took me back to a memory of my 13 year old self and my first sexual trauma. And I met my perpetrator in that vision and forgave him in that moment as I looked for him in my eyes. And I didn't create any of this on my own. It was literally this, you know, divinely led process because I was surrendered.

  And so I totally agree. I think when we're able to really connect with our younger selves and bring them back together because they're so fractionated, right? Like there's all these pieces and parts of us that are disconnected.

  And to me, I see wholeness as us connecting with those different parts that have felt abandoned, alone, separated. So I'm curious, you mentioned like your four year old self and then seven year old self. Would you be willing to share any of those young selves with us and what they did?

  Yeah. You know, I kind of threw those two specific ages out randomly, but I remember a moment where I was able to connect back to being like in the womb, sucking my thumb. I never was a thumbsucker, but it was the moment of birth where I felt that the fear of abandonment was literally born, right? Because now we're separate from our mother.

  And so I somehow was able to like go back in this crazy visceral meditation and like heal the fear of abandonment like from God, myself, my mother, from the womb. It was wild. I just, it was bizarre.

  I can't, you know, cognitively it doesn't make sense, but there you are like in this past regression. And so that was really powerful. Yeah, I would say probably around the age of seven or eight healing wounds with my dad and how he disciplined my go-to strategy for handling conflict was to not. Because my dad was so explosive with his anger. So then I learned to shut my anger down and people, please.

  Right? Because when we often are really hyperactive in one state, something else can be really suppressed. And so realizing that like anger is healthy and I'm allowed to have a voice and I can disagree and it's safe to be, to go against, to not be obedient in that way. But again, my, you know, my dad would be explosive and I would go hide in the laundry basket in the closet in the dark. And I would be behind like three different doors, you know, to go hide and lick my wounds.

  And that showed up in future partnerships where in conflict I would just kind of shut down in stone wall and not even notice rather than lean into connection. Like, hey, I actually need to be loved here. I need to be seen in this because I already know so well the feeling wrong for the feeling this way that I have a need, that I have something to vocalize, that I disagree, that there's a conflict and it feels wildly unsafe in my nervous system. This, it's so powerful. Cause I mean, as you may or may not know, I mean, I have a method called anger alchemy and what you're talking about is really like parts of it in a lot of it's around using your voice.

  You're talking about like, it's safe to like actually say the thing, right? How did you discover this for yourself? Like, was there a guide that you had?

  Or did you just have this natural intuitive knowing that you needed to do certain parts to really be in your power in this? I needed a guide for the depth of this work because you are so blind. Like that's what a blind spot is.

  We are blind to those spots. And so I needed someone to help me recognize the pattern because I was so in it and it's so automatic. Hence the autonomic nervous system, right? It's so reactive and fast cause your nervous system is just protecting. I didn't even notice when it would happen.

  Like where does it switch? How does it feel? And so to like slow things down and sit with a mentor in that was super helpful because it was like, oh gosh. And then to then identify it and then to start to play with using my voice and taking up space and being angry is okay. It was like, whoa, I don't feel like I'm allowed to.

  And yet it's just me and her on a Zoom call. What part of me is like saying I'm not allowed? It's wild, wild. And so that continues to be a little bit of work for me because it feels like I would feel very frustrated when I wanted to do something and I felt like I couldn't give myself the permission cause there's literally nothing externally telling me I can't.

  It's just me. So that's where I edit myself or hold back or shove down. So yeah, I've gotten so much better with that but that's when you feel like you're gonna get in trouble for being angry or you're a bad person or it's connected to all these other things or you're like when you're scared as a child, like, oh shit, I might get hit or I might get yelled at or I might be punished. You definitely don't wanna go there. No, I mean, that's your survival shutting down.

  Like there's no way that you would. So being able to start speaking up at the beginning does feel like life or death. It does feel like terror for a lot of people. So did you just like start to say little thing? Like how did you ease into using your voice from somebody who came from that history? Well, the question would come up like, I'd be like, ooh, I feel tightness in my throat.

  And usually, you know this from clients, like is there something that wants to be said or sound that wants to be made? And it was like, well, I want to, but I don't feel like I can. Feels like I'm being suffocated at the same time. And therein lies the tension.

  One part wants to express, the other one is like nope, pushing it down. And so just slowly over time, it might be like doing a Voo-ah with a growl, right? It might be screaming. It might be doing like a big breath into my elbow and feeling the power of my breath and like the release of that, which can restore healthy fight response. So small things, big things, shouting, embodied dance, rage release. I mean, I've done it all.

  I've done Kundalini awakening. I'm open because I have courage, the first ingredient to healing. So I'm like, yeah, let's fucking go there because I know the peace and the freedom that exists on the other side of that. So it's like, take me there all day. Take me there all day. It feels hard.

  It feels like life or death. And we'll go, you know, we'll go slow, but like, well, let's go there. Yeah, right.

  When you're committed to your freedom, then it's like, there's nothing gonna keep you from getting there, period. Yeah. It might, yeah, but the process might be slower. It might take its own time, which is perfect because our nervous systems need to feel safe in order to open. But I'm wondering also about, and I know we got it closed soon, but I am curious, because I know people who are listening, my audience really resonates with not only using the voice, but like dealing with their repressed anger or, you know, the resentment that's been living inside their body and like letting it out. When you first like said, maybe no to somebody or said, actually, this is how I really feel, you know, like, can you walk us through like how that felt? Cause I know when I teach people, I say expect your body to have like lots of sensations afterwards, especially when you're starting to begin this work, it's gonna feel really fucking uncomfortable cause you're gonna have all the stories coming up that they hate me, oh my God, I did it wrong.

  Like should I set it this way instead? Or so how did I feel for you when you first started actually saying the thing to people? And then what did you do to support yourself in that moment? Yeah, first you wanna throw up.

  Then your heart goes into your throat and then you're like, did I, and then you start replaying, looping thoughts, doubt. Should I have said it this way? Oh my God, was I too harsh? Was I too direct? Like maybe I shouldn't have said it that way.

  Maybe I shouldn't have said anything at all. Feeling like I did something wrong or I'm gonna get in trouble, kind of like a hyper vigilant state where I have like one eye open or I keep checking the text or circling back, rereading, replaying. Those are all indicators. Again, for me, my suppressed fight response is very tied to a very overactive font response. So knowing that about my nervous system and then when all else fails, I'm more freezy, right? It's a shutdown state. So just knowing my nervous system and like what happens when?

  Oh, we're here right now. And now I know how to get out of those states because there's capacity and fluidity in my system, but I know how to thought out of frozen system, right? Fight restore mobility in an immobile place or with font response, I know to just sit a little bit longer to be uncomfortable and to be okay, pissing people off with them and being okay with them, not being okay. Or with fight response. I don't have to yell to get my point across, but how can I say this directly and neutrally?

  Because it used to be I had to get angry to express a boundary. Just knowing all these, and you can hear there's a spectrum and there are shades and gradients to everything. And also there are gradients to whatever season and evolution you're currently in. Because what feels super prickly right now and tender may not feel that way as you continue to practice it and rewrite the pattern actively. Totally, yeah. It starts to shift, your capacity expands and you're like, oh my God, when you look back, I've changed, I'm not feeling, I don't feel like throwing up anymore.

  Like it just feels like a little weirdness in my stomach or something, you know? So yeah, that's great. Because so basically what you're saying is like, once you have a map, like you know where you are on the map, then it's easier to move through it because you're like, oh, I'm here right now on this map. This is what I need to do in order to support myself in this system state. And a question asked too, is if you know your capacity, your window of tolerance, where it feels tolerant to be within the window of, you know, you might still be activated and feel something alive, but you're still calm, curious and alert. Where am I on a scale of one to 10 within that capacity? Am I like feeling like, oh, I'm about to like fuck shit up right now? Like, am I right at like the edge? Am I over the edge? Am I an overwhelm? Am I just like not even sure where I am in my executive functions offline?

  Right, or am I like, I'm out of five. I can feel this, but I'm also pretty calm and curious still and connected. And that's okay. Yeah. It's like a check-in. Yeah, the check-in is everything. Oh my God, this is so good.

  We literally went all over the map, which I love. People pleasing to anger. I love it. Oh my goodness. Okay, so I am so sure that my audience is gonna really appreciate this conversation in all the areas that we went on the map.

  Thank you for sharing your story. And like you guys heard earlier on, I will be at Kerry's Champagne. Club event in Atlanta in October. So, you know, those of you who wanna join and meet us in person, join us. I'll leave the link below. Also, you can check out Kerry's podcast.

  The link will also be below. Like I said, I'm her brand partner. So we're really excited about collaborating. So before you go, let me know, like is there anything you wanna share with my people? Like any offerings, any ways that they can connect with you, anything at all? Yeah, we have some new stuff coming to our space, but the best way to find out everything is elevatewithkerrykuri.com.

  Come join me for a workshop, an immersion, or if you've already got a baseline of this work, you know, you wanna take a deep dive into some even higher levels of transformation. We have academies and retreats and other things like that. But yeah, we have lots of fun stuff.

  You can just come peep around and see what strikes your fancy. Amazing, amazing. Thank you for being here, Kerry.

  Thank you for sharing. I'm sure people are gonna receive so much listening to this episode. Yeah, love it. Thank you.

  Take care. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode or received insight from it, I wanna hear about it in your words. Feedback powers the show.

  So here are three ways that you can support the Tao of Po. One, hit the subscribe button so that you never miss an episode. Two, share your biggest takeaway from this episode on Instagram and tag me.

  I absolutely love seeing and reposting your stories. Three, leave a review on Apple Podcast. This is the ultimate way to support the show and it takes less than a few minutes. And I also love shouting out my reviewers on solo episodes. Or if you're a Spotify listener, rate it with a quick click. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for supporting the show and I will see you next Wednesday in another episode of the Tao of Po.

In this episode, Keri shares her journey with visibility and power, exploring how our childhood experiences shape the way we show up in the world. She dives into growing up with the fear of being seen, driven by her experiences of being bullied, and how this fear led her to become hypervigilant, shrinking herself to avoid attention.

We explore the "sisterhood wound" and how it played out in her life—from her youth, through college, and into her corporate career. She opens up about the impact of her looks on her self-perception, her people-pleasing behaviors, and avoiding pedestalization as a coach.

Join us for this insightful conversation on the first ingredient of healing—courage—and the inner child work pivotal to personal growth, and how to recognize your own unhelpful patterns around people-pleasing, anger, and expression so you can break free from them.

We dive into:

• Navigating visibility and success with a fear of being seen

• Keri’s childhood experiences with bullying and becoming hypervigilant

• The complexities of the sisterhood wound and how we both found healing around this

• Perception, people-pleasing, and pedestalization

• Lessons learned from Keri’s group program that imploded

• Anger and assertiveness: recognizing our patterns

• How to break free from anxiety and hypervigilance when expressing our feelings

• And more

Keri Ford is the CEO & Founder of Elevate with Keri – a transformational coaching movement and luxury brand dedicated to elevating emotional intelligence and whole-body high performance for the world’s top female executives and entrepreneurs.

With advanced training as a Behavior Change Specialist and Somatic Practitioner, Keri was awarded by IFAH as one of the Top 100 Global Visionaries and 2023 CEO with the Best Women’s Personal Development Platform.

Connect with Keri:

IG: https://www.instagram.com/iamkeriford/

FB: http://facebook.com/kerilynn.ford

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kerifordofficial

Champaign Club on October 19 Dinner Event - https://elevatewithkeri.ticketspice.com/the-champagne-club-by-keri-ford

APEX Leadership Mastery Academy for Female Founders and Visionaries - https://elevatewithkeri.com/apex/

Join us at the Soul Renewal Retreat April 4 -11: https://www.taoofpo.com/soul-renewal-retreat

Connect with me and let’s go deeper: 

Website: https://www.pohongyu.com 

IG: https://www.instagram.com/pohong.yu/ 

FB: https://www.facebook.com/pohong.yu/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pohongyu/

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