EPISODE 122: From Burnout to Breakthrough with Michelle Rios

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  Po: Welcome to the Tao Po Podcast. I'm your host, Po Hongyu, aka Big Red, aka Po, aka all kinds of nicknames because Po pretty much goes with everything. I'm a mystic, a spiritual guide, a medicine woman, and a somatic energy healer. My soul's work is to guide people back to the wisdom that lives in their bodies and to heal unprocessed pain so they can have the space to cultivate their gifts and then radiate their light and their work out into the world. 

  Everything I teach is based on the foundation of Taoism with an emphasis on Yin, which is feminine energy. It's the internal, the deep, the dark, the soft, the surrendered, and the receptive energy that is arising in the collective. In this podcast, you'll receive soul treats in the form of three kinds of episodes that support this time of awakening. Inner child alchemy sessions, solo transmissions from my heart, and conversations with people where we explore the full range of topics that make people human and divine. I hope you enjoy. 

  Let's get into it. My guest today is Michelle Rios. She's an executive coach for CEOs, entrepreneurs, leaders, and high achievers seeking more than just traditional success. And you guys, she shared such an incredible story of how she reclaimed her life, literally. She was ready to give up, but was divinely guided in a different direction that completely changed the trajectory of her life. She drops all the nuggets in this episode, you guys, so get ready to be inspired. 

  Po: Hey, Michelle, welcome to my show. I'm so happy to have you here. 

  Michelle: I am so excited to be here, Po. It's been a while and getting us together, and I'm so glad you were persistent and we're making this happen. Yes. 

  Po: I'm like, okay, Michelle's like kind of lingering back in my head. Let me, let me reach out 

  Po: to her and yeah, we were supposed to do it maybe like a year ago. A year ago? Yeah. Yeah. But I'm so happy. And actually, you guys, we were trying before I pressed record. 

  Po: I was like, I didn't realize you were so, I don't know, open. And like, I just didn't know what to expect. And I got so happy 

  Po: because this conversation is going to be so juicy. I can feel it already. 

  Po: So yeah, let's get it started. 

  Po: What are you most grateful for right now? 

  Michelle: Oh, this is a good one. I would say I'm in this really interesting phase of my life, where I stepped away from a big corporate career. I'm in this entrepreneurial cocoon. I love it. And I have this tremendous amount of freedom that I didn't have before to focus on issues that matter to me when I want to focus on them. So I'm writing the book. 

  I have the podcast. I'm working with clients. And so in terms of like scheduling my day and designing my time, I have this freedom that I never experienced before that to me is so fairly new in the last few years. It's something I don't take for granted. I'm so grateful for every day. 

  Po: I love that. And you were talking before we recorded that you have a son. How old is your son? I have a part of the reason. 

  Michelle: Yeah, a rising senior. He's 17 years old. And we are in this really special phase of looking at colleges together. And, you know, he's his first generation. So this is interesting. My husband's from Peru and grew up in Peru. And so he's in this funky phase where he's 50% Peruvian, 50% all American, quote unquote, with my background. 

  But it's a new experience for him. I was the first generation to go to college in my family. He's pioneering a lot for his, you know, edge of the family and all his cousins. 

  And it's exciting. We're going on little road trips. And, you know, he doesn't know what he wants to be 17. But he's exploring from this place that's so authentic, you know, he's like, you know, mom, college isn't what it used to be. Like you needed it before as a calling card. But now you can be a business person, an entrepreneur, and you can do anything you want. 

  I'm just doing it for the social experience. So I was like, all right, let me introduce you to the fine institutions of Commonwealth of Virginia that are 50% less than some of those other places on your list as a result. But he's just so grounded and mature and, you know, we're friends. 

  Like, a lot of people are like, don't be friends with your kids. I'm cooie on that. Like, we're friends. I've parented to him now. He's 17 years old. There's limited parenting that really happens at this point. 

  It's more like emotional guidance and mentoring and stuff. And it's so, it's just special. It's really beautiful to watch him sort of unfold and become who he's always been, but in a broader scheme and a bigger scale. 

  Po: This sounds so nourishing. I feel like when you talk about that, I feel like tingles all over my body. And I'm like, wow, you did that, Michelle. Like, you did that. You and your husband did that, you know, and that's such an accomplishment. 

  Michelle: Thank you. I mean, it's such an antithesis of my growing up experience. And I think probably the growing up experience of most of your listeners, right? Like, we all kind of, from a generational standpoint, had a very different growing up. 

  And we sort of had to find our way back to ourselves. And then to experience a child that already knows who he is at such a deep level, that it's sort of like, the world is your oyster. That's not just a saying. It's true for you. 

  Like, you're here and just very grounded and very much an old soul. Definitely. I think, and he's an only child. 

  So I think that often impacts things too. He's grown up having to be mostly around adults for a lot of his life. And he's just kind of an old soul. 

  Po: Wow. How do you feel about him leaving the nest? Like, this is a big phase for parents, right? So does it feel like a big thing to you? Or do you feel like nervous? Do you feel excited? Or how do you feel? 

  Michelle: Yeah, all the things. 

  Michelle: I think earlier, a few years ago, I was more nervous. Now I'm more excited for both of us because the reality is, and I felt this deeply, when he was little, he was mine. He was my beautiful little baby and mine, mine, mine, mine, mine. And I had some growing up to do from a parenting standpoint. And I realized they're not yours. 

  You're just entrusted with their well-being and you got to just watch them grow and blossom and learn from them. And I'm at a point now where I'm excited for both of us. One, he needs to have that next step of whatever we couldn't do. He's going to get out in the world with peers and still have that connectivity to us. Like, we're not going to be that far away that we can't get on a plane or in a car and get to him or vice versa. But also, the freedom to just experiment in the world about who he is and exerting himself without mama bear around. And then also, the freedom of, quite frankly, I've played on the sidelines as a soccer mom for many, many years. And I'm ready to graduate from that and move on to some other things at my time. 

  Po: I'm just ready. What would that be, Michelle? 

  Po: Like, what is going to replace soccer mom vibes? 

  Michelle: Oh, man, I am so in for the midlife vibes now of like midlife women groups, bringing women together, talking about all the things, really helping people discover. Because I find like so many of us go through that period with raising kids where you sort of put yourself on the back burner, which is so back, you know, backwards. It's the wrong thing to do. It doesn't teach them the right thing. 

  It's not good for you. And yeah, everyone says put your oxygen on mask on first, but you don't or you forget to from time to time. And I think now being able to get back to that and realizing, 

  Michelle: hey, we're full people that we've not been able to fully focus on for a while. Welcome to my club of other people who've had to do this too. We're going to have so much fun catching up because it's like discovery. 

  Michelle: And it's, you know, so many women going through the same thing at midlife, rediscovering, entering new chapters, recognizing they had gifts that didn't really fully tap earlier in life, that they're starting to discover and think, hey, I have a penchant for public speaking or hey, I really like art or I who knew was really into X, Y or Z and watching people step into that and own it and become who they were always meant to be is really beautiful. So I've been able to experiment more with that over the last couple of years, bringing friends together and women I know in the area. And now as my circle has really grown globally through podcasts and through coaching, doing more retreats, doing more conferences, doing that kind of thing and not being having to worry about getting home for a soccer game, it's going to be really, you know, a nice new phase. 

  Po: I'm excited for you. Yeah. It's like another, it's a portal midlife, you know, I feel like you're reborn in a sense and I don't have any kids, but I am in midlife turning 49 in a couple of months. But I love this time because there's so many possibilities like this next phase, this next life, you know, this next level and I'm really excited to see how it all unfolds for you. 

  Michelle: Yeah. And there's just, I think we're much more confident in who we are and less, I don't feel the need to apologize. I think there was a time where I felt like I needed to apologize for what I wanted and who I wanted to be and now I'm like zero fucks off to go. 

  Basically, I'm apologetically showing up as myself, take it or leave it and I'm not going to be everybody's cup of tea and oh well. But like I'm having so much fun and I thought, you know, the other day, actually my son said this and I thought, what a great compliment. He didn't mean it that way, but I took it that way and he said, you are the biggest freaking kid I know. And I just stopped for a minute and said, thank you. That is the nicest thing anyone said to me lately. And he was like, what? And I was like, I had a very truncated childhood. So I am at this place where fun is the first thing on my list each day. Yes. 

  Po: Oh my goodness. I meant to that. All of that because we learn as we get to this age or some people before and some people a little bit later, but like there's a limited time, right? It's like it becomes reality, like it's more clear that okay, I need to prioritize what is most important and what is that, right? 

  Fun, connection, relationships. And I just so relate to everything you're saying, but you just mentioned your childhood being truncated. And so I'm curious about what challenging childhood experience you had that created a pivotal shift for you that you are grateful for. 

  So maybe before it was like hard and challenging and a lot of friction or pain, but it ended up being something that really was a gift like for you as you grew up, you look back, you're like, oh, I'm really grateful that that happened because X, Y and Z. 

  Michelle: Yeah. I mean, so a lot of people who know me knew me through the business experience or knew me probably high school up. And so I was very hard study or some really good student and did really well, excelled. And then I sort of had a meteoric rise in the business world. But what a lot of people don't know is I was the kid that grew up with a 16 year old mother and 18 year old father on food stamps. 

  And, you know, I think poverty is a relative term since my husband is from Peru and I've seen abject poverty at a level that we don't really have here. But to say that it was hard was be an understatement, you know, they were 16 and 18. My mom got thrown out of school for being pregnant. I was the kid she was pregnant with. So there was a lot of shame that sort of bi-association of being the kid I inherited, not because they were ashamed of me, but because the experiences that they went through and my mother got kicked out of her school, she got kicked out of her home. My paternal grandmother took us in and helped raise me for the first few years of life. So I was very, very close to my grandparents on my dad's side. And the awareness of the fact that I was sort of known as an accident was not lost on me. You know, I was a seven year old that was being picked on by her older cousins. He thought she was cute, but, you know, obviously thought it was funny. 

  I didn't think it was funny. It was really sad for me to be like, what a minute did they want me? Like, and what did they go through as a result of having me? 

  So it changed the trajectory of my life in the sense that once I realized at around seven that my coming into the world caused such disruption and ended up being this sort of teenage pregnancy drama. And my parents were both, whether it was French Catholic, my dad was Irish Catholic. So of course, Catholic, you're getting married. So they probably shouldn't have gotten married and did get married and had me a couple months later, right after my dad graduated from high school. 

  So it was like, he turned 18, he graduated from high school, they got married, and then I came all within three months. And it was a lot. And so for me, it sort of pushed me to excel. 

  It didn't sort of, I had to excel because I got sat down by my dad and said, failure's not an option. And there is no safety net kiddo. And you're the firstborn. And so you need to set the bar high. And you have two siblings behind you. So they're going to go and follow whatever you do. So it's a lot of pressure as a seven year old. 

  You're like, all right, so I'm going to push the envelope and see what I can do. So it became this game of, I'm going to win all the things. Little did I know that in going through that process, a, my parents were young and didn't know any better. So they just did their best to encourage me to try hard and create new circumstances so that I didn't grow up a teenage, you know, another teenage pregnancy myself, because that's not usually what happens. 

  Usually you continue the cycle. And he wanted something different for me. They both did. And they were not very happy being young parents who would want children when you're not even 20 years old and you've got three babies under the age of five, you know, it was not fun. And they, you know, there were times where we didn't have enough money to eat. 

  So we were living on food stamps and other things. So that really had a traumatic impact on me. It forced me to really become much more serious about school very quickly. Childhood was evaporated kind of overnight. 

  I went from carefree, cute little kid to super serious academically and going to win all the things. My parents had never gone to college. Their parents had never gone to college. So I ended up becoming first generation to go to college. And that was not at a time when there were people to help you do that. 

  So that was, it felt hard and difficult to navigate. I showed up and I was in a private liberal arts school because I thought that small environment would be better for me. And I think it wasn't many levels, but I was also surrounded with affluence, which my response to that was try to assimilate, which I couldn't afford to assimilate. 

  It cost me to have a real chip on my shoulder and keep a selling, excelling, excelling, excelling. So I was going 150 miles an hour through my adolescence, through my early 20s. I came to DC. I was recruited into working into management consulting. I went to graduate school and a scholarship. 

  And so I was in business school and I was working in management consultant and kind of going up the ladder and not realizing that the more I climbed in order to kind of forget where I came from and become something bigger and better and newer and all of this, I would lose myself. But that's exactly what happened. And it came to a point where, to be honest, Po, it probably had been happening for more than a year. And I didn't have the wherewithal, nor did we have the resources back then for me to identify that I was going through a crisis or through depression. But I had become an ambassadorial scholar to Spain a few years out of college. And I had lived overseas. I was in Barcelona. I'd already been living in Spain earlier in college. 

  I went back to Barcelona. I was living in over there going to grad school. And then I got called from Georgetown. 

  They'd offered me a full tuition scholarship to go and study there. So when I came back, I had this period of time, sort of like no man's land, where I had about nine months before I was going to start Georgetown. And I started working again. 

  I had been on a leave of absence and I was back on the treadmill doing all the things. And then when I started school, I just kept pushing, pushing, pushing, thinking, I eventually will feel better. I just have to get over this hump. Only the hump was continuous. It was this continuous hump. And the only way I can describe it is as time went on, I was sleeping less, eating less, and eating what I did eat was probably terrible for me. And exercising more, thinking, I'll all balance out. 

  Under a lot of academic stress, a lot of pressure in the job arena in the sense that when I told them I was going to go back to school full time, they were like, well, just keep working. We'll work with your schedule. You don't need to resign. And so again, doing something for somebody else, I really did need to focus on just school because I knew I had a capacity overload, right? Like I could only do so much, but I didn't want to let anyone down. So I kept doing all the things. And increasingly, the only way to describe it is feeling like this dark void was growing inside of me and slowly but surely swallowing me whole. 

  And it got to a point that it was like late fall. And I was doing all the things going, you know, it's not like I didn't have fun. I had friends, I was going out and Adams Morgan, I was going dancing, I was on days, I was doing all the things. But I didn't have space to think I was completely lost in terms of who I really was because I was doing all the things that other people had encouraged me to do. And I woefully did under the guise of believing if I keep going and doing this, I'll be happy, right? 

  That's what we do when we're younger in particular. And then one day I woke up and I couldn't even physically move. I physically could not lift myself from my bed. I was so physically burned out, probably suffering from mononucleosis because you get sick once and you can't really get over it. You just kind of go and I'd been sick earlier, a few months earlier. 

  And I think it just sort of never left my system. And I was definitely in a place where I'm like, I can't do this anymore. And when I said I can't do this anymore, it wasn't just the pace. 

  The pace was sort of like irrelevant. I'd been working like a workhorse my whole life, but it was like my soul ached. And I couldn't do that anymore. 

  It just hurt so much. It's a deep cellular level that I found myself staring out the 10th story window of my apartment building going, it would be so freeing to just jump. And I just stood there half awake, half asleep in this day's state of being going, what is wrong with me? 

  And it scared me to my core. I mean, I came so close to just, it would have been so easy to just jump. And it felt freeing to think about that that's what pulled me back from the edge. And I found myself on an odyssey for the rest of the day, literally, I'm not joking. 

  I was like, talk about divine intervention. I wasn't safe in that apartment. I really didn't, I needed to not be alone. I ended up getting on a bus. I lived in Georgetown at the time and I got on this bus and I'm looking around and there's no one else on this bus but me. 

  And this bus driver is this older gentleman. He sort of just nodded the entire time, like knew exactly what was going on, could read my thoughts. And in the middle of me, literally sobbing and trying to meld into the window and pretend nobody is watching and I'm alone and it'll all get better if I just let it all out. He says, you know, sometimes you just need to surrender. And I'm looking at this bus driver snot hanging down my face going, how does he know everything I'm feeling right now? And he just had that look of familiarity. 

  And it just felt so warm. I didn't want to get off the bus to be honest, pal. I was like, I'm just going to ride this damn bus all day long until I feel better. The longer I stay, the better I felt. And I must have gone through the city at least three times before he said, do you have somewhere you need to be? Clearly I don't. 

  Michelle: Because if I was going to be where I was going to be, it wouldn't have been alive. 

  Michelle: So this feels like a good place to be. And it's interesting. You know, he repeated himself, you know, maybe you just need to surrender to it. And at the time, I was so tired, surrender meant something very different, right? It meant give up. And I was such a feisty doing good girl that I was like hell to the note of that, I'm not giving up. Although I really considered it like a few hours earlier. But in, you know, a different state of mind and different places, I was like, I don't want to give up, you know, like I had so much will to live so much just charisma and excitement. And here I was literally contemplating stage exiting left going, this is just wrong on so many levels. This is not living well. 

  And right when I said, okay, fine, in my mind, I'm like, I surrender. It's like, bing. The bus is idling on the side of Wisconsin Avenue in Georgetown. I've been on it a thousand times if I've been on once. And there's a sign I've never seen before that says community health center. And I'm looking at the bus driver, and he's looking at me and I'm looking at the sign, he's looking at the sign. I'm like, cling. 

  Michelle: Okay, I guess I'm getting off here. 

  Michelle: And I ended up walking into my very first community health center. And I was in my mid to late twenties, and I sat down and thought of all the reasons why I should leave within the first five minutes of sitting down and putting my name on the clipboard, right? 

  And they're like, we'll call you up shortly. And I'm like, I really probably don't need this. I went through all the things like, this is just a bad day. I'm tired, I just need to get a good breakfast. And I'm hungry, all the things. And before I could actually muster the courage to walk out, escape, somebody came in back and said, you know, Michelle, you want to come with me? And I'm thinking, no, I don't. And yet, I ended up following her and we talked. 

  And I remember this as being probably the most life changing moment of my life. Because she said, listen to me for a while. And then she said, I have one question for you. But it's the most important question you're going to ever ask yourself. 

  I'm thinking late on me, I'm a good study. I could figure this out. And she goes, what do you want? 

  I just stood there stunned, like, what do you mean? What do I want? I want to be happy. 

  She's like, no, what do you want? Like getting angry now, I'm like, I want to be happy. I don't want to feel like this. She's like, no, no, no, no, no. 

  This momentary, what do you want in life? What sets your cell on fire? And I just looked at her like for clumped and confused and a little bit like, who are you to even ask me that? And realized like, I don't know. And she's like liar, you know, like calling bullshit on this, you absolutely know what you want. You just keep telling yourself, you don't know what you want. And I just stood there for a little bit and I was like, you know, I don't even think I can want what I used to want. It's so long ago. 

  Po: Is that the music that you were talking about? Is that what you're performing? 

  Michelle: Performing was really important to me and I'd put it away. And I said, you know, it was interesting because my sister had just started studying to become a licensed psychotherapist and she was broke, totally broke. And I remember having to help supplement for her paying her bills in her apartment and saying to this therapist, well, to be honest, if money weren't an object, I'd probably be studying psychotherapy and helping people because I'm watching my sister and I realize that what she does, she has so much passion for and I can see that it's helping people, but she can't even pay rent. 

  And it didn't feel like an option for me as the oldest. And remember, she's feeling sad about that and saying to her, you know, I want to do something that matters. I want to know that what I do makes a difference. And that day was a turning point for me because it gave me permission to go back to myself and start the journey home. I had been so far away from who I was as a kid and coming to start the journey to figuring out how do I get back to myself? 

  Po: I love this so much because there's a couple different points that really stand out to me. One, which is that these moments of hitting the wall, falling down, like really feeling like all this darkness is surrounding you is an opportunity to create something different for allowing yourself to open up to the thing that is really calling you. Because, you know, in my experience, it's been that way and from your story, it's like, if you didn't have that moment of being at the window and contemplating and then choosing not to jump and then being led just intuitively following the energy and then getting on that bus, right? So it's like these magical breadcrumbs and I'm just getting chills talking about this. 

  Michelle: I mean, it was completely divinely led. I know it. I know it for a matter of fact because being at the window, I'll tell you, Po, something that powerfully happened, I actually saw myself fall. And I felt being physically pulled back from the edge of reason and plunked onto my apartment floor hard, but held the whole time. It was scary. 

  I'm tearing up telling you this. It was scary. And at the same time, I just knew I wasn't alone. 

  I knew I was like, okay, that's not the way this is supposed to go. And just taking a deep breath and stepping back and realizing, you know, every time something big, some big adversity, some challenge that was just overwhelming has come up, it's always led me down a path that eventually created more opening and expansion. But the actual experience of the challenge or the test or the deep, dark space was so uncomfortable, was so unbridling, was so un... It really was the undoing of me in lots of ways. And I always say, it's kind of like being birthed all over again, right? You go through the birth canal, it's uncomfortable, it's painful, it's all the things, but then expansion. And that's exactly like, if you look at all of the things that come up, we resist it. 

  But the more we resist it, and the more we hang in with it, rather than surrendering to it, the more it persists at that low level of discomfort, rather than just going through the pain and getting to the other side, which is where the expansion is possible. And it's been like that. I didn't realize it at the time, it took going through that one in a major way in a few years of reviewing over and over again, what the hell happened, to recognize that that's the way it always is. It has always been like that in my life. 

  Po: Because that's what nature is. I mean, that is really like death and rebirth, destruction always comes before expansion. And to me, I know the bus driver kept on saying to you about surrender. To me, you were in a surrendered space already. You surrendered to following your leaving the house. You surrendered by getting on the bus. You surrendered by laying on the wall of the bus and crying. You surrendered by getting off the bus and seeing the sign. Surrender doesn't always look how we think it looks or feels how we think it feels. And I feel like you are for sure surrendered to that divine guidance. 

  Michelle: Yeah. And I think a lot of friends who have either had many awakenings earlier in life, but didn't give in to them fully. So they sort of discounted the value of them and then had the bigger one in their 40s, which often happens. It's a big gulp of an experience or even your 50s, but typically somewhere in your 40s. 

  Michelle: And they're just like, oh my God, this is horrible. I can't do it. 

  Michelle: And you're like, just hang in there because it actually is going to get shitloads better. But you got to go through it. And so even when, now it's different, I'm sure you feel it too. 

  There's really nothing I can conceive that's as bad as that moment where I was ready to hang in the towel. not out of a willfulness to do so, but because of desperation, of just being so tired of not being myself. The burden of not being in alignment, the burden of not being authentic is so much bigger and the cost is so much more severe than people realize. I think there is a misunderstanding of the importance of authenticity, that it's sort of like a, oh, it's so nice that you can be your most true self. 

  No, if you are not authentic and you are living in this space that's not you and you are trying to do life, it is like pushing, I said this for years, it's like pushing a boulder up the hill every single day and then having it rolled down over you on the way back down that hill and then having to get up the next day and push the boulder back up again to be flattened by it again over and over and over again. And I had lived that for years and I had just been really good at boulder pushing. I got tired of pushing the damn boulder. I just really got tired and that's when the work started. You have to get tired of what you have been tolerating in order for change to occur. 

  Po: Yeah, you get sick and tired of it. You're like, I am so sick and tired of my shit. I'm sick and tired of being in suffering. I'm sick and tired of going through the same patterns. It's like it can either be a wake up call or it's something that you just keep enduring and honestly there are people who do until they die. Until they die. It's not guaranteed that you'll awaken in those moments. You have to be willing to do the work and surrender. So it's a blessing that you listened and you were quick. 

  Michelle: And the gratitude, you asked me earlier about what I'm grateful for. The freedom I feel now, I feel great gratitude for. But I feel gratitude for the fact that I have been willing to allow these dark experiences of my life to be moments of awakening because God knows you don't get one. You know, if you're really open to it, you're going to get many and it's going to be one more layer of understanding and one more layer of getting to the trueness of you and of life. 

  But it's a one step closer and one step closer if you allow it to be anyone who thinks, oh, I had this epiphany and everything changed and forever amen. My life was better. It's not like that. It's like a cha-cha, right? It's like the light goes off. The angels and the choirs sing. 

  You have this great lightning. And then the next day you're like, shit, am I back to where I started? They like yesterday, how did I get back here? And then you have to remember, oh wait, this is, I decided it was going to be different and you start to consciously and intentionally move in a different direction and allow there to be a pivot. And then you create a little bit of space and wiggle room and you realize, oh wait, I was playing incredibly small for someone with a real fancy title and a big bank account at such a young age. I was playing really small and I was suffocating the life out of me. 

  So let's create a little more space and let's stand up a little bit more tall and let's start talking the way you talk and the way you show up and start being more you. And guess what? A lot of people are going to be like, who the hell are you and what did you do with our friend Michelle? And they're going to walk right out of your life and you're going to wave right behind them and say, bye-bye, making room for new people. It's sad when it happens, but it's so needed. It's like cleaning up the closet of clothes that no longer fit you. 

  Po: 100% and now you have even more space to vision and dream and tap into your desires. Like what is it that you desire instead of living your life based off of what you are told that you should do and carry the weight of your family? So that turning moment for you and that woman said that another angel, that second angel that day, right? 

  She said to you, what is it that you want is so powerful because I'm speaking to the listeners here because I know a lot of women who follow me are very much in a pattern of people pleasing, not acknowledging their own needs, never mind even acknowledging their desires because they don't even know what they need for the baseline, you know, the foundational pieces. And so I think this question is so important. And in that moment, what did you start to realize in the coming, the following days? Like, what did you start to see for yourself about what you wanted? 

  Michelle: Yeah, I mean, I think the most important thing was that the preconceived path that I thought I needed to be on that everyone sort of encouraged me out of the best of intentions, right? Nobody was trying to set me up for failure, miserable life. 

  They were doing that out of love. This idea of, you know, pursue security because you didn't have any as a kid. So if you get some, you'll be sad, you know, like, that's what you didn't have. 

  Let's create what you didn't, let's fill the gap in. What I realized is, you know, probably the biggest epiphany of all of that was I walked out of that experience with a therapist and my day with the bus driver, my angel bus driver. And I went to a Barnes & Noble and I started like literally consuming every personal development book, which the section on self-help was much smaller in those days than it is today. 

  And I happened to stumble along a Pull Your Own Strings book by Wayne Dyer. And it was life-changing. You know, he was starting to talk and I caught a PBS special then with him. And he was starting to talk in ways that I'd never heard before. 

  Like, what do you mean we're spiritual beings having a human experience? That felt like just so cosmically new and different. And it felt so much better. I was like, well, that explains so much. 

  Michelle: Yeah. Why this is so hard. And I just remember going, well, damn, if 

  Michelle: that's what's going on, I am sick and tired of playing checkers here. Bring out the chessboard. And it was sort of like back up from my life and starting to see this whole game of life as a game going, wait a minute, I am deep in the weeds of being a protagonist in my own drama. 

  How about we go into the, you know, the stands and take a look from a different perspective and see this board a little differently and see what's possible. And, you know, just getting a little perspective on your own life is a huge game changer. And for me, it was like, well, what are you good at? What do you love to do? Because I was really good at a lot of things. I was one of these, like, what do they say? You're a generalist, but a master of none. 

  Jack of all trades, master of none. I was that not great for trying to quote unquote, intellectually decide what you want. And I was so stuck in my head that this idea of dropping down into my heart and letting my soul call the shots was like, so cool and different that I was like, I felt like a renegade. I was like, well, my soul has gone the shots here. 

  So if it gets it wrong, it's it's fault, not mine. Not realizing that we're one and the same, but I was new to all this. So I was like, I really loved to write. You know, I've always been a writer as a singer, songwriter. I loved to write poetry. I loved to write short stories. But I was like, how am I going to make a living doing this? 

  I'm a poor kid from rural Maine. I got to do something pragmatic. But my soul kept saying, but let's find something anyway that requires writing. 

  And so I ended up getting in PR. And that was a really difficult thing for me because intellectually it was like, it's not law or business school. And it was stupid. 

  It was a stupid head game. And I became really good at connecting with people and telling stories and shockingly, you know, I was like, Hey, I have a job as a professional storyteller. 

  Michelle: This is a really cool job. And you get paid good money for it. Win win. I like grows up through the ranks being a professional storyteller. 

  Michelle: And in the process of doing that, I ended up becoming known as sort of the CEO whisperer because I was a little bit weird. I was the one that'd be like, but how do you really feel because I was in this place where I was like working from a sole place and everyone else is like, what is wrong with her? But it would be enough for the other person, usually a leader, right? It's never somebody who's behind you or below you that's dustbring things out. They criticize like there's no tomorrow. But the people are kind of further ahead who might be like, What did you say? 

  What do you mean? How do I feel? Yeah, like, are you connected with that? Do you feel aligned? Aligned? What do you mean? And then I would enter these conversations. 

  The next thing I know, they'd be like, Hey, there's a difficult conversation that needs to be how to client X. Send Michelle. Like she seems to do her magic and disarm them. They don't know what to do with her and they tell her everything. 

  So send her. So that started to happen more and more. Like there's another difficult conversation. Send Michelle. And I'm like, I'll do it. Whatever. It's like connecting with people at a deep level. 

  Michelle: What do you really want? And we can't be my question of my entire career. 

  Michelle: What do you really want? Like she asked the best questions. I was like, got that when I was in my 20s from this really smart therapist. Best question ever. 

  Michelle: And it's become my thing. I mean, she asked the deepest questions. 

  Michelle: I'm like, I know for a question, for a word question, but the most important question anyone will ever ask themselves. And so it changed the trajectory of things. I was still in this traditional corporate career, but I was being kind of the quirky and not in the beginning. In the beginning, I was very, very much corporate, trying to fit in, trying to simulate. 

  But as those experiences shaped me and I really processed them and I kept studying and I had really started to dedicate myself to personal development. I'd go to every Wayne Tire event. I was listening to Deepak before Deepak was known. You know, going to Mary Ann Williamsons, doing the Course in Miracles. All the stuff was happening on the side for me. And I was just bringing it to my work. And then I'd add another layer. 

  And my new layer was, okay, this may be not the exact venue I want to spend the rest of my life in. But these are just other souls. These are just other souls on their journey. We're all on the same journey. 

  If I just show up every day and ask myself, how may I serve? How is that going to change the game of things? And it changed things tremendously because all of a sudden I started getting these like, plunk problem case. And I would get these like impossible scenarios to deal with. And I realized it was because I kept asking for them and they would be like my problem to solve. 

  But it was always something juicy. And at the bottom of it, it was always a business problem that always had a people foundation, shocker, I know. But everyone's like, I can't believe that you got down the heart of that. And it was like a people issue. After all, I'm like, it's always a people issue. 

  Michelle: It's never not a people issue. 

  Michelle: Why do we get so stuck in our heads thinking it's some like strategy problem? And we get, no, it's like a human error on some level. And when we accept that, then, you know, you get to have like really cool juicy conversations. So the transition from all of that big fallout of my childhood trauma, crying up, you know, broken with teenage parents was I busted my ass. I worked really hard. It opened a lot of doors. 

  I went through them. It brought me to new heights. It spit me out on the other side because I got lost. But then that offered a new spot of renewal, like each spot, even the working really hard and then being able to travel and see the world while still figuring things out wouldn't have been possible. Had I not had the spark underneath me to change the circumstances in which I had been born into and to create an opportunity for not just me, but like I had a little brother and sister for them to experience something because this goes back to your people, please I had the experience to say she was worth it. We went through shit, hell and back, but she was worth it. Like look what she did. And that was tough to admit for a long time that that was really the motivation behind a lot of what I did. 

  And when I finally got to a point where I said, huh, that's not really worked out so well for me. It did open a lot of doors. My siblings did do very well. It actually we sent my dad to college after that. 

  So like we all did all these cool things. My dad went to college. My mom ended up becoming an executive and insurance and like so everybody grew up together. And my parents today, shockingly, are still married. So we were like, wow, nobody knows. 

  Michelle: I don't know if they even 

  Michelle: know how they pulled that one off, but they're still married and they are my biggest champions today. Watching me actually walk away from corporate at the height of my career was I think a beautiful moment for all of them because we really did all grow up together in a lot of ways. And the whole spiritual aspect of really recognizing the journey that we are on as spiritual beings. My parents are definitely much more aware than the average parents to that. 

  I think because they've been brought to their knees so many times, I wouldn't call us particularly religious, but very spiritual for sure. And there had been a time where we weren't right. We were all in our heads working really hard. We were toiling because that's what New Englanders do. 

  And it really required kind of getting pulled down to the abyss to recognize that the whole journey is a spiritual one. And they are the biggest consumers of my content. Shareers of my podcast. I mean, the book, I think about it, you know, everyone's like, oh, is this for leaders and executives? And I was like, sure, but like, this is for the every person. Like I am very aware of the fact that a lot of the people who follow of me are the people who knew me when. And I was like, I'm not even way back when you know, Michelle on the elementary school playground who probably had nothing. 

  And but it's just the kid next door kind of thing. And they people have been incredible people who I didn't even know there were classes behind me but knew of me because I was known. I was really academically known. I did really well in school and stuff. So people knew my name. 

  But reached down and said, Hey, I saw that you started a podcast or hey, I shared your podcast or hey, I listened to this episode or hey, I heard you have a book coming out or hey, I'm on the book list. And that's the reason why I'm doing this because there are people that still step in the shadows that don't even recognize that the journey is their journey. Right. It's their journey. And I grew up listening to a lot of people saying, but it's just work. Work is not supposed to be fun. And life is hard. And all of these things that shape you a certain way and that keep you low. And that really once I kind of got beyond that and really processed a lot of the stuff in my 30s and going into my 40s and becoming a mother, bringing brought to my knees and we can have another conversation another day about how that changes you in a million ways. And you realize there is no perfection in that. 

  So give up and have fun. But when you realize that for me, my heart goes out to those people that sit in the shadows thinking that this is as good as it gets. Because when I wake up every day, it's a whole different perspective than 20, 30 years ago. I wake up with a sense of wonder. I wake up with a sense of like, this is pretty freaking amazing. Like I am creating this experience. I have got a huge hand in what happens and unfolds in my life, not to say everything, but a great deal of it. And when you recognize this, the idea of extraordinary doesn't become something that's so far in the distance. 

  It's very attainable. It doesn't mean problem free. It doesn't mean grief free. It doesn't mean that my bank account is going to have eight figures in it all the time. 

  It means that I'm going to be experiencing this sense of freedom and peace and wonder while I'm co creating my own life and alignment with who I was always meant to be. Damn, that's pretty spectacular. That's something I can sign up for. And I just want more people to recognize that it's so attainable. You don't have to have gone to some fancy college or have some sort of post doctorate degree or corner office to have an extraordinary life. And in fact, I would say a lot of those things are impediments to having 100% in your head. 

  Po: Yeah, right. You get stuck in your head. And once you realize that everything emanates from this heart space, a soul space that matters, and you can get out of here a little bit more often. 

  Michelle: Magic happens, right? Michelle and posted to having a conversation and you're thinking, we're two people from completely opposites, you know, spectrums of the world. And yet we're not really. We're two souls that have encountered each other at this point in the journey because we were meant to meet at this point in the journey. And then who knows what's going to happen next. That's the magic. 100%. 

  Po: I love that you're sharing all this because that's what I was going to say is that I know that many people who are listening right now are going to be so inspired by your story and what you were able to create and continue to create. Because you had that fire in you, like even in the midst of like, you know, the lowest moment that pilot light was still there. And so you are just showing by example of what is possible and those moments of deep despair and darkness are all opportunities and for everybody who's listening, it is possible for you. It's your willingness to really ask yourself, what is it that you really want you, not what anybody else has told you, not what, you know, people have passed down the generations of expectations, or your media or your friends or your coworkers, like, what is it that you actually want and desire, and then following that fire. 

  And that has been my story as well, Michelle, like I so resonate with what you shared because we all have those moments and we all have a choice to actually say yes to the opportunity and you're here with 

  Po: like, you just like went, you know, like you just like, you took it and you fucking ran like, you know, and I just see it. And I see in my 

  Po: mind's eye of like how you just, you're just a firecracker and I mean, I wonder, I'm like, are you a 

  Po: fire sign, like, you know, like you have 

  Michelle: a September Libra baby, believe it or not. So what does that make me, I think it's an earth sign isn't it. It's an air sign. It's an air sign. Oh, that makes a lot of sense. 

  Po: But either way, you, you have all this 

  Po: fire and I just love the message that you're sharing people. And you know, one last question before we close out. So, when you were talking about you being the first child, and you were the one essentially disrupting like you were the disruptor you came in and your parent your mom had, you got mom got kicked out of the house and school and, and you felt this, this shame and, you know, responsibility. I'm wondering like about the disruptor and you like I can see you as a disruptor now like you're shaking up and disrupting what people, their their belief systems and all that. And so I just, I feel like there's such power in those moments of when we were born, what was happening in that moment, you in the womb, the energy that is happening in that space and how it develops us at that early age of and then of course afterwards too. And so I'm wondering what comes up for you when I bring this up. Do you see this for yourself and the impact of that. 

  Michelle: Yeah, I mean it's really interesting because when I was little, even before like I was, it's funny that I say this but I always use the age seven is like things sort of changed for me because they became aware of the circumstances of my birth at seven, maybe on the cusp of turning eight. But before that, it was this very carefree kid, but I was really driven. I was already incredibly driven. I was just driven differently. Like for me, it was I was performing. 

  I'm like, there was a spotlight to be had I was in it with a microphone in my hand. And you know, I'd be like my parents couldn't afford lessons of any kind. So I would pretend I would follow the little girls that had dance lessons and I would like copy their routines and then I'd practice them. Let's put me into their little dance routines and talent shows and I'd pretend I knew what I was doing. And they were just kind. But it was my grandparents would always say there wasn't a day that would go by that you weren't performing. 

  I would like pull out a chair and get on the chair and help us. And I was acting and everyone's like, what is she doing now? But I just had the zest for life and I just wanted to entertain before I knew. 

  And before I think I got pulled into the oh, okay, I guess I need to be a certain way. And even my music changed then. Like, I did take lessons. 

  I eventually taught guitar and I was in I was a singer and all these things, but it was very channeled under purpose. And it changes. Like everything I wrote became very purposeful. And it wasn't that it was not good. It was just different. And I say that because from a disruptive standpoint, it only has been recently in the last say five years I've felt that come back in a deep way. 

  Disruptive in my marriage, my husband would say she was a hurricane the day matter and hasn't stopped being like, you know, category five storm in my life. And I'm like, you're welcome. Like, how you'd be bored if it were anything else. 

  I was keeping you on your toes. But I'm my son the same way. Can't you be like a normal mom? 

  I'm like, what do you mean, like learn how to cook? Yeah, no. Not going to happen. But I mean, we can eat at a really good restaurant. I do cook a little, I will take that. But what happened recently, because I think this is what's needed more and more. And it'll probably become more than warm with the current generations that are just growing up. But certainly as a Gen Xer, I think it took a lot of my peers by surprise when I told everyone I was resigning at the height of my career when I was sort of heir apparent to go up to the next level. And I remember meeting with my partner, work partner, we shared responsibilities globally for the US corporate practice of this firm we're in. And she was coming to DC and I led the DC office and we're meeting for lunch in the Mayflower and the restaurant. And I talked about this in the book. 

  And I'll share this one story because I do think it's poignant. She was so excited to see me. I was excited to see her because we rarely see each other. But I had already resigned to the founder three days before. Another story for another day, very impactful moment. But I said, let me tell my partner myself. 

  I think she needs to hear it for me. So we're sitting, we're connecting. And I was like looking for the right moment to be able to say, hey, I've told them I'm resigning. And I had just met you actually. We were both in Kathy's class. 

  So it was at the beginning of that class. And I'm sitting there, we're about ready to have lunch. And I tell her, okay, you know, this is what's happened. I've made a decision. I'm going to leave. And she just looked at me like, where are you going? And I said, I'm not going to competitor. 

  Starting your own firm. And I'm not starting my own fear for her. And then she was just confused. And she's like, what are you doing? I said, well, I'm starting a podcast and you could just see the blood drain from her face. 

  On personal development and self mastery. And now she's pale. And she looks like she might be ill. And then I say, and I'm going to write a book. 

  And I'm going to start coaching. And you could just see her like the bewilderment in her eyes. And then the tears started. I mean, like, full on sobbing. 

  And she's shaking. And I'm like, I'm not going to leave you with all the work. I've already told our boss that I'll stay around as long as it takes, as long as you know that I'm launching this podcast, I'm doing some things. So, you know, I've got other things going on from a brand perspective, my own brand, instead of promoting everyone else's. And so I'm going to have this other stuff going on, but I'll stay as long as it takes. I'm not going to leave you in the lurch. I'm thinking, she's like, and then she's still crying. 

  Michelle: And I was like, and we're still going to be friends. And she's like, I'm not crying because you're leaving. 

  Michelle: You can see where this is going, right? Yes. And I was like, okay, humble pie eaten. And she goes, don't you think I wish I were as brave as you? And then it hit me. Damn. This isn't just about me. Now, I will say that particular person had that moment with me and I've, I've, I've felt it deeply. 

  Michelle: But then Titan Dill back up, pushed it shoved it right back down 

  Michelle: and acted as if it didn't matter that I was leaving after that and didn't really want to talk to me about it ever again. And it's really maintained a very like puckered lips approach about the whole thing. But that's her journey. But it, it, it isn't lost on me that one of the most accomplished and respected people in my former industry had a moment where she recognized what I was doing was disruptive, that I was leaving something. It was counterculture. I was leaving at the height of my career when a lot of people are slowing down. I'm just getting started. 

  Po: So powerful. So powerful. And I knew I was drawn to wanting to have you on this show because even though I didn't know you, I really, we didn't, this is our first time ever having a conversation. There was some energy that was attracting me. And now I know what it is because you're a fellow disruptor. 

  I did not know that about you. And I'm so grateful that you're doing the work that you're doing, that you, your book is coming out. And I would love for you to share with the people, the listeners, what you have going on, how they can connect with you. And so they can continue to be inspired by you. 

  Michelle: Yeah, well, thank you so much. Again, thank you so much for having me on. I cannot wait for you to come on my show. I would love for folks to come and check out the podcast, of course, it's called the Live Your Extraordinary Live podcast. 

  And it's available on Spotify, Apple, all the places that you get your podcasts. You can find me very active. I think you're more active on Facebook. I tend to be more active on Instagram. I don't really know why, how that happened. But I'm very active, I'm on both, but I'm very active on Instagram at Michelle.Rio. 

  official. And you can find me there. And then I have a website, same name MichelleRio'sOfficial.com. And if you go there, you can actually find out about my coaching. I do one on one coaching. I have a group program coming out timed for early next year with the fall. And you can get on my waitlist for my book, actually, which is great and keep in touch that way, because I'll be, as I'm going through the process right now, we're just about ready to go into editing, but I'll be doing kind of behind the scenes over the next several months before it actually comes out. So if you go get on the waitlist, you can kind of get some sneak peeks of what's to come. 

  Po: What is that name for the listeners of the book? 

  Michelle: The book is called The Power of Authenticity, Mastering the Art of Extraordinary Living. I love it. Yeah. And it's all about really, it's one of the few times I sort of, I think a lot of first time authors struggle with the, is it a memoir? Is it a self help book? So just to confuse myself in the process, I decided to do a little bit of both in the sense that there are personal anecdotes from my life and experiences to bring the principles to life, because these are the actual principles that I've used. So as I've become much more aware of the power of authenticity and how it impacted my life, particularly not being authentic and how it brought me to my knees and how restoring myself, again, I don't think you ever are 100% authentic until you transition. 

  So if anybody really wants to know my views on this, you can go read more. But I think it's about getting closer and closer and closer to the truest you at your spiritual essence. And so each step toward yourself is getting you closer to alignment, right? 

  Full alignment. And these principles in their totality are what I use. I continue to use in coaching. I use in my own life. It's what I create all my content around because they are the most powerful tools that I've had that have been the teachers for me throughout, you know, my 50 plus years on the planet. So I hope you'll all check it out. 

  Po: Yes, please check it out. All her links will be below in the show notes. And it makes so much sense that you put those stories in there. You are a storyteller. So of course there's going to be your stories in the book. And I appreciate you sharing your stories here. 

  This has been so, so pleasurable and such an honor for me to really get to know you better. And I hope you all connect with Michelle in Instagram or Facebook. And yeah, I can't wait to be on your podcast too. Thank you for, I know, for giving us all your juice, seen us and all the things Michelle. 

  Michelle: I cannot wait to have you on because I have a feeling that part two is going to get even juicier because we both not only have this great affinity and understanding of why authenticity matters, but there's this sensuality of being that I see and I feel and I watch and I appreciate and I share with you. So it gives us a lot of jumping off points for our next conversation. 

  Po: Ooh, I cannot wait. All right, you guys wait for part two. Thank you so much, Michelle. 

  Michelle: Thank you so much for having me, Po. It's been an absolute pleasure. Same. 

  Po: I love the button so that you never miss an episode. Two, share your biggest takeaway from this episode on Instagram and tag me. I absolutely love seeing and reposting your stories. Three, leave a review on Apple podcast. This is the ultimate way to support the show and it takes less than a few minutes. And I also love shouting out my reviewers on solo episodes. Or if you're a Spotify listener, rate it with a quick click. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for supporting the show and I will see you next Wednesday in another episode of The Tao of Po. 

In this episode, Michelle shares her inspiring story of resilience and transformation and how she reclaimed her life at a moment when she was ready to give up, only to be divinely guided in a direction that completely changed her trajectory.

She discusses the challenges of parenting, college planning, and embracing fun in midlife, while also reflecting on how being a child of a teenage pregnancy impacted her self-esteem and drive. 

Amidst deep despair and burnout, Michelle surrendered to intuition and divine guidance, leading to profound personal growth and authenticity. She became a disrupter in her life by walking away from a successful corporate career to pursue her soul's desires.

Tune in to be inspired by her incredible journey of surrender, growth, and rediscovery. 

We dive into: 

- The impact of being a child of a teenage pregnancy on self-esteem and drive
- Parenting & college planning with her son and rediscovering herself in midlife
- Her experience with burnout and depression as a high-achiever 
- Contemplating suicide and Michelle’s encounter with a compassionate bus driver
- Walking away from corporate at the height of her career & pursuing her soul’s desire
- Changing her circumstances, becoming a disrupter, and leaning into authenticity
- And more 

Michelle Rios is the transformational coach of choice for CEOs, entrepreneurs, leaders, and other high achievers seeking more than just traditional success.

Recognized for her ability to guide highly accomplished individuals through a profound self-discovery process, Michelle works with them to unlock their full potential and cultivate a greater sense of purpose, alignment, freedom, and joy in their personal and professional lives.

As a certified executive coaching professional, she also draws experience from her 25-year, award-winning career as a communication leader, agency executive, and trusted advisor to top leaders across the globe - a role that earned her the reputation of being "The CEO Whisperer."

Michelle is also the host of one of the fastest-growing, personal development podcasts - Live Your Extraordinary Life. She is also a sought-after speaker at the intersection of leadership and personal growth.

Michelle resides in Washington, DC with her husband, son, and their two Great Pyrenees. 

Connect with Michelle: 

Website: https://michelleriosofficial.com/ 

IG: https://www.instagram.com/michelle.rios.official/ 

FB: https://www.facebook.com/michelle.c.rios/?locale=es_LA

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-rios-692951a/?trk=public_post_feed-actor-nameYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZquNbVWnsYvSwvzniWv-3w

Connect with me and let’s go deeper: 

Website: https://www.pohongyu.com 

IG: https://www.instagram.com/pohong.yu/ 

FB: https://www.facebook.com/pohong.yu/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pohongyu/

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